How A Dispensationalist Can Be Saved. According To An Andersonite

I recently came into possession of a series of emails and responses sent from a Bible Believer to a well known Pastor among the Andersonite, Jew-hating, anti-Dispensational, quick prayerism crowd.  Although the words used are real, the names have been changed to protect the innocent.

The question posed in the preceding email was basically, “What must I, as a dispensationalist, do to be saved?”  As usual, the bold words are the words of the Bible believer and the non bold words are the words of the Andersonite.  This email was sent back about a month ago and the Pastor has not responded.  Enjoy!

 

Start of email text:

I would give you the plan of salvation the same way I would pretty much anyone else. Especially if you are in agreement that we do not have to repent of our sins to be saved. Do you really knock on a door and make sure that they agree with out about Old testament and tribulation salvation. I don’t think you do, yet for me you do.  That’s stretching…

Here is what you as a Ruckmanite need to know to be saved.

  1. You must admit you do not believe the same GospelI cor 15:1-4?  That is of course the gospel that I believe.and repent of your belief in a false gospel we need to be careful with words. I believe that other gospels existed but not now… to say otherwise is deceptively misrepresent what I believe.  and believe the true Gospel. Which is I cor 15:1-4?

 

  1. You need to admit that while you give lip service to faith in Jesus Christ as the way, the truth, and the life, that you do not really believe that in your heart.Hmmmm.  I guess you would know.

 

  1. You need to have an understanding of your sin and just how bad it is, which will cause you to understand that just like you cannot be saved by your works, that no one ever could or ever will be saved by their works. Yep.  The Bible clearly teaches faith + works in other periods of time. Works were never enough.  We’re too sinful.  Let me ask you this: would Noah have been saved if he hadn’t built the ark?  Would God have kept him from hell if he disobeyed the command to build?  Would an OT jew have been kept out of hell if he’d refused to obey the sabbath and offer burnt sacrifices?  They needed faith and works.  Not works only. 

 

You might say you agree with all this, but let me explain why you don’t. A Catholic would say that they believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, but they also believe you have to go through Mary so we would both agree that they don’t believe John 14:6. This is called false equivocation… You would also say you agree with John 14:6, but you really believe Jesus is a way and not the only way to the Father. Incorrect.  I will explain below.  You believe that Jesus is only the way to the Father in this dispensation. If you believe people got to the Father through works in the Old Testament or will in the Tribulation then you clearly believe in multiple ways to Heaven. Incorrect.  Outside of this dispensation, men could stay out of hell but they couldn’t get to the Father, except through Jesus.  That is with their faith and works they were kept in the heart of the earth.  See I Sam 28 where Samuel is dead, but not in heaven, Luke 16 where Lazarus is so close to the rich man in hell that they can talk to each other, and Luke 23 where Jesus goes to the heart of the earth (matt 12:40) and the thief goes with him.  Jesus is, was, and always will be the only way to Heaven. Exactly.  After Christ rose, he took those people from the heart of the earth (Eph 4:8-10) and now paradise is in heaven with the Father(II Cor 12).  Your statement is true and so is dispensationalism.  You also believe that the Jews are the Bride of God the Father which also proves that you believe there is another way to the Father besides going through Jesus Christ. I don’t understand what you mean.  They still had to be saved by Christ or else they didn’t get to the Father.  Having said all this I am sure it will cause you to want to bring up many different passages that you feel contradict this and it has caused you to have many questions. I believe they all can be answered, but that just proves that you do not believe John 14:6 and you must in order to be saved. Hmmm. Any objections to John 14:6 will tell me that you are not saved. I never gave any objections.  So I’m saved, right?

 

You would say that you believed the Gospel and therefore you are saved, but proof you do not believe the Gospel is the very fact that you believe in multiple gospels that is misrepresenting me.  I believe other gospels existed that is NOT the same thing. Gal_1:8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.100% agreed.  I only PREACH one gospel. I Cor 15:1-4.  When it comes to teaching Bible doctrine there are more.  You believe this too.  Do you believe Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and I Cor 15 are the same? If not, then you believe in 5 gospels.  That doesn’t make you accursed.  Neither does it make me accursed.  To say otherwise is deliberately change the meaning of words to make me look bad.  Did Jesus preach the gospel to the rich young ruler in Luke 18:18-30? Is he accursed?

Gal_1:9  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Rom 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Hopefully you can see that Paul is talking about today.  This verse does not say that all Jews ever were only saved by the Gospel of Christ.  The disciples didn’t even know it until after the Resurrection. John 20:9 and many others. Were they lost until after John20?

Rom 1:17  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Note: This verse says there is more than one faith.  Read it.  That is exactly my point.  The same Gospel that saves Gentiles saves the Jews, correct today. and notice how Paul quoted Old Testament. To believe in other gospels proves that you do not understand the real Gospel. You just made that up.  There has always been only one Gospel that has saved people and it is the Gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Then Jesus Christ sent out lost preachers in Matt 10, because they didn’t understand the Resurrection until John 20.  This Gospel was in the Old Testament. Yes, in type and no one understood it.  Show me one place where anyone in the old testament believed in I Cor 15.  You can’t find it because they didn’t.  They believed that a Messiah should come and a few other things, but NO ONE put it all together and therefore none were saved the same way as us.   1Co 15:1  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1Co 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sinsaccording to the scriptures; yep the scriptures say it would happen.  Show me one place where the Bible says that someone in the OT believed it. By this, I mean all four elements 1. Death. 2. Burial. 3. Resurrection. 4. For our sins. 

1Co 15:4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: same comment as above.

Luk 24:25  Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luk 24:26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luk 24:27  And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Jesus used the Old Testament to preach the Gospel of His death, burial, and resurrection. Interesting choice of passages, because it shows dispensational salvation.  This is “two of them” vs 13.  They are disciples who didn’t know what the OT types meant and Jesus Christ explained the types.  This passages exactly illustrates my point.  They weren’t saved yet in a NT sense.  They didn’t have the whole picture.  But they were disciples?

 

You also do not believe in the Blood of Christ as the only atonement for sin. Lets be really careful with words here. Because the Bible says something different.  You can see that to have your sins taken away Heb 10:4, nothing but Christ and his sacrifice could, John 1:29.  But you said ATONEMENT.  That is something else and it’s clear in the scriptures.  We get the atonement at salvation (Rom 5:11).  But this was not always the case.  Ex30:15 says people got atonement through an offering.  Not sins taken away, but atoned.  Lev 4 shows sacrifices atoned.  Look up the word “atonement” all through the OT, people got atoned through sacrifices according to the Bible.  That’s what it says. 

Heb 9:22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It says blood, not necessarily Christ’s blood.  Don’t read into the text.  And in the OT those sacrifices remitted but didn’t take away. Remit and take away are two different things although they happened to us at the same time at salvation. 

Heb 9:23  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Heb 10:4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.  Exactly what I believe.  OT saints could have their sins forgiven but until Christ came, they couldn’t have their sins taken away.  See Ex 34:7 please. 

It is beyond ridiculous to think that anyone ever made it to Heaven by any work at all. Think about what I just said, please.  True, they were kept out of hell by works+faith, they got to heaven by trusting Christ.  In time, this happened after the resurrection.

Gal 3:21  Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. OT saints didn’t get life, but the Bible says they got righteousness.  But it wasn’t God’s righteousness, it was a righteousness that was acceptable before the cross.  Luke 1:6- righteous, but no faith according to the text.  Phil 3:9 shows that there is two kinds of righteousness. 

Gal 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

To believe that there was ever a time when anyone got to Heaven because of their works in any way shows that you do not understand what it means to be a sinner. Nope, they stayed out of hell by their works.  They got to heaven by Christ.  A clear understanding of sin will cause you to realize that nothing can wash away sins except the Blood of Jesus. Exactly what I believe. 

The Gospel we preach and the way of salvation is not just something for this dispensation it is what has always brought salvation. Unproven Trust me that I know all the objections that you probably have to this because I have heard them all from the Ruckmanites. If so, why is your wording so careless (don’t mean to sound mean, but it seems that’s the best word, if you claim to know so much). The question I always get is did Abraham know about the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? This is where the true meaning of the word dispensation comes in. A dispensation is not a period of time, 100% correct.  but it is a distribution or a revealing of a part of God’s plan. It is true that we know more about the Gospel today than Abraham did because we have received more dispensations of the Gospel, but what men like Abraham had to believe was only what had been revealed to them at that time. 100% correct. As we look back at the Scriptures we can see clearly that what Abraham trusted in was in fact exactly what we are trusting in. please demonstrate this.  We see it more clearly today than he did back then, but it was faith in the same thing and that is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Please demonstrate this. 

 

What does a Ruckmanite need to do to be save.

  1. Recognize the Jesus is the only way and not just a way for a specific dispensation.
  2. Recognize that there is only one Gospel and trust in it.
  3. Realize that there is only one thing that ever could cleanse sin and that is the Blood of Jesus.
  4. Repent of your unbelief. Just like a Catholic cannot believe in Jesus and also Mary. You cannot believe in this Gospel and other gospels. I suppose this in found in Acts 16:31b….  Salvation is simple (John 1:12) unless you are a dispensationalist, then it becomes a matter of complex doctrine. 

 

I hope you realize that I projected a lot of beliefs on you that I don’t know for sure that you hold personally, but these are things that I have heard from many different Ruckmanites and I am assuming you believe these things. If you do believe those things. I truly believe that this is what you need to do to be saved. I have never talked to a Ruckmanite or listened to one preached that has even made me suspicious that they might be saved. What a blessing.  I know all this sounds pretty harsh, but this is what I truly believe and I hope it is all coming across in the right spirit, and I really hope that you agree with it and are saved. If you are in agreement and if most Ruckmanites agree with this then I would love to see some of them start calling out the crazies like (redacted), (redacted), and Sluder. They are giving you guys a bad name, and are out there presenting themselves as disciples of Peter Ruckman.

When I first started studying, I did run into the belief that OT saints looked forward to the cross.  I did believe it for a while until someone showed me the truth from the scriptures.  We believe in eternal security, right? (in this dispensation anyways, people in the OT didn’t have security, ie King Saul, and won’t in the Trib, Heb 6) So was I saved or no?  Interesting to hear your response. 

 

Pastor (name redacted)

3 thoughts on “How A Dispensationalist Can Be Saved. According To An Andersonite

  1. The scriptures speak very clearly regarding salvation and the OT. I am dispensational, but not hyper-dispensational. There is one way to heaven:“For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:2-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/rom.4.2-14,16.kjv

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  2. SS – Thank you for your comment and I don’t mean to be accusatory, but did you read the whole article?

    I am not a hyperdispensationalist and I have addressed that in a previous article. However, if you have a different definition of the word, then ok, I am a hyperdispensationalist and I am sure to another guy with another definition, you are also a hyperdispensationalist…

    1. This passage was not addressed because it wasn’t brought up in the first email. He was right to steer clear of it, because it has a sister passage that makes it a tough passage to make into a foundational passage. James 2 says, “Abraham was justified by works.” Abraham’s salvation was different than ours in some ways and similar to ours in some ways. His faith and getting righteousness from it, is like ours. That is what Paul is saying in Rom 4. But other parts are different. See James 2 and Ex 34:7. Do you see how this is a rough place to try and figure out how a man before Jesus could be saved?

    2. Did OT saints go to heaven when they died? I addressed this in the article.

    3. What did OT saints have faith in?

    4. What happened to OT saints that believed all the right stuff, but didn’t follow the commandments?

    If you have answers to these questions, I would like to hear them and see the Scriptures.

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